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Dear Hassan, Elga & List, Does prune juice help for information/constipation? If so, I'd need gallons of it, to cure after-effects of some six pages, from Elga & Hassan. As the confused, yet noble, Prince Hamlet said, "Words, words, words!" Sorry, Hassan, but it's rather silly to say the United Nations excludes violence, and you know it. The UN consists of a number of member-States, all having armies (possibly with one or two exceptions). Furthermore, some of those States have so-called Weapons of Mass Destruction", e.g. India, China, USA & Israel. "All neccessary means" certainly does include using military force, hopefully, as a last (not first!) resort. Absolutely, peace & justice figure highly amongst UN ideals, and rightly so. It's in the legacy of Eleanor Roosevelt, (no legal expert) & others,who created the Universal Declararation of Human Rights. As I said, to Hassan's unbounded amazement, the UN isn't a pacifist organisation. Despite it's very high ideals, it's members are not Gandhians, not believers in total non-violence. Many of the member-States are known abusers of human rights, and commit crimes against humanity, one doesn't have to look hard to find examples (e.g. Russia & Chechneya, China & Tibet or Israel & the Occupied Territories). The United Nations, as all human organisations & societies, is imperfect - which doesnt preclude it from having a purpose, to unite the nations, & the peoples, of the world. One can argue about whether various UN policies have been right or wrong, including Kuwait. You don't need to convince me of non-intervention for Iraq, by USA/UK. For years, with others, I was out on the streets, campaigning against sanctions/bombings, when most people regarded war with Iraq as a footnote in history. The war, in my view, is not recent, it has, simply, & on a massive scale, escalated. The war, with the two allies, has been going on since 1900. When you mention legal expert's views, I should treat that with utmost caution - they don't all think uniformly. And some are less scrupulous than others. You may disagree with some lawyers or politicians, & that is your right. Should Iraq pay compensations? No, I don't think so, just as I wouldn't have expected occupied European nations, such as Denmark, to pay compensation to Nazi-Germany in WWII. After all, this war against Iraq has been illegal, immoral & in contravention of international norms. The bomber pilot, in his missions of destruction, over Baghdad etc., may have little concern for who is going to clean up, afterwards, and who is going to foot the bill. But you are quite right, we do have a moral duty to bring justice to an unjust world - providing we do so with just intentions and with just means. Greetings, Bert. P.S. My reply to Elga will follow, separately, later on. _________________________________________________________________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email email@example.com All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk