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Will we ever really know the truth about anything at all in Iraq? pg Sunday, December 21 http://tinyurl.com/2bht5 Australian Broadcasting Saddam held by Kurds, drugged and left for US troops: report Saddam Hussein was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him, a British tabloid newspaper has reported. Saddam came into the hands of the Kurdish Patriotic Front after being betrayed to the group by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the Sunday Express, which quoted an unnamed senior British military intelligence officer. The newspaper said the full story of events leading up to the ousted Iraqi president's capture on December 13 near his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq, "exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete". A former Iraqi intelligence officer, whom the Express did not name, told the paper that Saddam was held prisoner by a leader of the Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside US forces during the Iraq war, until he negotiated a deal. The deal apparently involved the group gaining political advantage in the region. An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East told the Express: "Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence. We knew that someone would eventually take their revenge, it was just a matter of time." -- AFP ------------------------------------------------ Hussein Was Held by Kurds Before U.S. Capture, AFP Reports http://tinyurl.com/2cc5y Bloomberg News Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Saddam Hussein was captured by U.S. troops only after being held prisoner by Kurdish forces, who had had drugged and abandoned him, Agence France-Presse reported, citing a Sunday Express newspaper report. The Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside U.S. forces during the Iraq war, held Hussien until it negotiated for more political advantage in the Middle East, AFP said, citing the paper, which quoted an unidentified Iraqi intelligence officer. Hussein, who had been in hiding since April, was captured a week ago about 9 miles south of his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq, ___Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, said at a press conference then__. ----- Original Message ----- From: "bluepilgrim" <bluepilgrim@grics.net> To: <CASI-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [casi] Iraqi date-growing season? > At 04:10 PM 12/20/03, you wrote: > > >[ Presenting plain-text part of multi-format email ] > > > >Spotted on LF via La Voz de Aztlan (http://tinyurl.com/2z9y2) via AP > >photo. Posted below. pg > > I saw the picture with the dates and the news photos of the hole Saddam was > supposedly hiding in, but I couldn't say these were photos of the same > place, and I don't know where the "date" picture is from. The most > important thing to keep in mind is *every* report and photo is suspect. The > war on Iraq was built on a foundation of lies and propaganda, and now many > parties are "arming themselves" for the current information war. (And let > us not trust reports as to what papers were found: there have already been > a number of misinterpretations as well as outright forgeries.) > > I assume that everyone has heard of the new "fearless leader news network" > to local US news outlets? > http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/12/19/iraq_news_feed_draws_c riticism?mode=PF > > As to postings and quality, as mentioned in the other messages, I had > posted a few things which I though to be analytical and relevant, but was > moderated as being not on topic -- not specific to the ground conditions in > Iraq -- apparantly with some complaints from some list members. At that > pointed I stopped posting until a few days ago, when I read the > announcement about the new list. As for facts on the ground, there are very > people who can speak to those first hand and still have access to > communication. The rest must be either second hand news, speculation, or > discussion in more general terms, such as what can be expected from the > occupiers and their policies. It is still not clear to me just what kind > of posts are desired, if not news items and analysis of those -- hence, I > hesitate to post anything. > > As far as facts on the ground, it makes little practical difference when > Saddam was captured -- or even what the perception of the timing is in Iraq > or elswhere. The *facts* , as near as I can tell from reports that come > though, is that Iraqis are being widely abused by the occupiers. Announcing > to people that anti-US demonstrations will be fired on is a sign both of > the desparation of the occupiers and an omen of much greater trouble to > come. Democracy "Miami style" breeds resentment anywhere. Add to that the > disappearing of Iraqis, cirlcling towns with barbed wire, demoslishing > houses, indiscriminate killing by US troops, etc. etc. -- on top of the > violent reactions of various insurgents, terrorists, and just those seeking > retributions -- on top of the generally lousy living conditions, lack of > security, jobs, and services --- well, what can possibly expected but > further breakdowns, resentment, and violence. > > The facts on the ground will unfold as they will regardless of spin and > propaganda. The effect of propaganda does not directly affect Iraq, but has > a large indirect effect as it influences public opinion in the nations of > the occupiers, and tolerance for the gangsters to continue their conquests > and looting. At this point Saddam is little more than a prop on the stage > show to be presented to the US population and the worldwide audience. > > There is currently noise about "the papers" and the "list of names" -- as > if these had any real significance. The "names" -- if the list actually > exists -- might be Saddam's friends, enemies, people to recruit or > approach, or a holiday greeting card list. Not only are people mobile -- > they can run and relocate if they fear being found out as spies -- but they > are replacable by thousands of others, with numbers of new resisters > growing every day. Revolution is only marginally hierarchical. Factions > which might eventually fall into civil war will not only cooperate to a > degree when threatened by a common enemy (the occuaption), but even when > competing will often be destructive of an occupying or would-be unifying > force. Let's say the US wants a puppet government and a docile population > under its control, and some permanent army bases and industrial > exploitation centers. As long as there are any groups or significant number > of individual retaliators, this can't be attained. The level of violence > and destruction will disrupt development, commerce, politics -- any sort of > stable organization. The reactions to this from the US will in all > likelyhood be increasing repression and military control, as is the wont of > this administration in particular, and US policy in general. That will > result in lowering of productivity, more dissatisfaction among the people, > and an increase in resistance, even to the formation of new resistance > groups. How many people in Iraq are now NOT angry at the occupation? The > press? Unions? Former military and police? Teachers? Scientific and > technical workers? People who live in houses and try to shop for food and > fuel? Who has NOT been screwed over already? > > The noise about Saddam is to a great extent more distraction promulgated by > Bush and co. to obscure the issues of corporate corruption, the lies going > into the war (and lack of WMD), violations of civil rights all over, the > failure to rebuld and stabilize Iraq, and the huge US domestic problems and > growing dissatisfaction with issues such as heath care and employment. One > might complain that some of these issues do not directly relate to > conditions in Iraq but in fact they largely determine what will happen > there. The most important election for Iraqis may well be not electing > their own leaders, but who wins the US presidency next year. It is to this > last question that the importance of Saddam is critical. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. > To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss > To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk > All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk