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Re: [casi] Iraqi date-growing season?

Will we ever really know the truth about anything at all in Iraq?  pg

Sunday, December 21     Australian Broadcasting

Saddam held by Kurds, drugged and left for US troops: report
Saddam Hussein was captured by US troops only after he had been taken
prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American
soldiers to recover him, a British tabloid newspaper has reported.

Saddam came into the hands of the Kurdish Patriotic Front after being
betrayed to the group by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had
been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the
Sunday Express, which quoted an unnamed senior British military intelligence

The newspaper said the full story of events leading up to the ousted Iraqi
president's capture on December 13 near his hometown of Tikrit in northern
Iraq, "exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete".

A former Iraqi intelligence officer, whom the Express did not name, told the
paper that Saddam was held prisoner by a leader of the Kurdish Patriotic
Front, which fought alongside US forces during the Iraq war, until he
negotiated a deal.

The deal apparently involved the group gaining political advantage in the

An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East told the Express:
"Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British
intelligence. We knew that someone would eventually take their revenge, it
was just a matter of time."

-- AFP

Hussein Was Held by Kurds Before U.S. Capture, AFP Reports  Bloomberg News

Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Saddam Hussein was captured by U.S. troops only after
being held prisoner by Kurdish forces, who had had drugged and abandoned
him, Agence France-Presse reported, citing a Sunday Express newspaper

The Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside U.S. forces during the
Iraq war, held Hussien until it negotiated for more political advantage in
the Middle East, AFP said, citing the paper, which quoted an unidentified
Iraqi intelligence officer.

Hussein, who had been in hiding since April, was captured a week ago about 9
miles south of his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq, ___Lieutenant
General Ricardo Sanchez, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, said at a
press conference then__.

----- Original Message -----
From: "bluepilgrim" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [casi] Iraqi date-growing season?

> At 04:10 PM 12/20/03, you wrote:
> >[ Presenting plain-text part of multi-format email ]
> >
> >Spotted on LF via La Voz de Aztlan ( via AP
> >photo.  Posted below. pg
> I saw the picture with the dates and the news photos of the hole Saddam
> supposedly hiding in, but I couldn't say these were photos of the same
> place, and I don't know where the "date" picture is from.  The most
> important thing to keep in mind is *every* report and photo is suspect.
> war on Iraq was built on a foundation of lies and propaganda, and now many
> parties are "arming themselves" for the current information war.  (And let
> us not trust reports as to what papers were found: there have already been
> a number of misinterpretations as well as outright forgeries.)
> I assume that everyone has heard of the new "fearless leader news network"
> to local US news outlets?
> As to postings and quality, as mentioned in the other messages, I had
> posted a few things which I though to be analytical and relevant, but was
> moderated as being not on topic -- not specific to the ground conditions
> Iraq -- apparantly with some complaints from some list members. At that
> pointed I stopped posting until a few days ago, when I read the
> announcement about the new list. As for facts on the ground, there are
> people who can speak to those first hand and still have access to
> communication. The rest must be either second hand news, speculation, or
> discussion in more general terms, such as what can be expected from the
> occupiers and their policies.  It is still not clear to me just what kind
> of posts are desired, if not news items and analysis of those -- hence, I
> hesitate to post anything.
> As far as facts on the ground, it makes little practical difference when
> Saddam was captured -- or even what the perception of the timing is in
> or elswhere.  The *facts* , as near as I can tell from reports that come
> though, is that Iraqis are being widely abused by the occupiers.
> to people that anti-US demonstrations will be fired on is a sign both of
> the desparation of the occupiers and an omen of much greater trouble to
> come. Democracy "Miami style" breeds resentment anywhere. Add to that the
> disappearing of Iraqis, cirlcling towns with barbed wire, demoslishing
> houses, indiscriminate killing by US troops, etc. etc. -- on top of the
> violent reactions of various insurgents, terrorists, and just those
> retributions -- on top of the generally lousy living conditions, lack of
> security, jobs, and services --- well, what can possibly expected but
> further breakdowns, resentment, and violence.
> The facts on the ground will unfold as they will regardless of spin and
> propaganda. The effect of propaganda does not directly affect Iraq, but
> a large indirect effect as it influences public opinion in the nations of
> the occupiers, and tolerance for the gangsters to continue their conquests
> and looting.  At this point Saddam is little more than a prop on the stage
> show to be presented to the US population and the worldwide audience.
> There is currently noise about "the papers" and the "list of names" -- as
> if these had any real significance. The "names"  -- if the list actually
> exists -- might be Saddam's friends, enemies, people to recruit or
> approach, or a holiday greeting card list. Not only are people mobile --
> they can run and relocate if they fear being found out as spies -- but
> are replacable by thousands of others, with numbers of new resisters
> growing every day.  Revolution is only marginally hierarchical. Factions
> which might eventually fall into civil war will not only cooperate to a
> degree when threatened by a common enemy (the occuaption), but even when
> competing will often be destructive of an occupying or would-be unifying
> force.  Let's say the US wants a puppet government and a docile population
> under its control, and some permanent army bases and industrial
> exploitation centers. As long as there are any groups or significant
> of individual retaliators, this can't be attained.  The level of violence
> and destruction will disrupt development, commerce, politics -- any sort
> stable organization. The reactions to this from the US will in all
> likelyhood be increasing repression and military control, as is the wont
> this administration in particular, and US policy in general. That will
> result in lowering of productivity, more dissatisfaction among the people,
> and an increase in resistance, even to the formation of new resistance
> groups. How many people in Iraq are now NOT angry at the occupation? The
> press? Unions? Former military and police? Teachers? Scientific and
> technical workers? People who live in houses and try to shop for food and
> fuel? Who has NOT been screwed over already?
> The noise about Saddam is to a great extent more distraction promulgated
> Bush and co. to obscure the issues of corporate corruption, the lies going
> into the war (and lack of WMD), violations of civil rights all over, the
> failure to rebuld and stabilize Iraq, and the huge US domestic problems
> growing dissatisfaction with issues such as heath care and employment.
> might complain that some of these issues do not directly relate to
> conditions in Iraq but in fact they largely determine what will happen
> there.  The most important election for Iraqis may well be not electing
> their own leaders, but who wins the US presidency next year.  It is to
> last question that the importance of Saddam is critical.
> _______________________________________________
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