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Re: [casi] Another bogus mass grave story - from LA Times



Isn't it easier to interview many people in Iraq to try to
find out how many missing or executed persons there are?
Statistical methods can yield more than digging in the
ground.


Quoting Peter Brooke <pbrooke@ukonline.co.uk>:

> Dear all
>
> I have absolutely no reason to believe that mass graves
don't exist. It
> seems to me highly unlikely that they do not exist,
especially given the
> nightmarish situation which the United Nations (that is
NOT a typo)
> created
> in 1991.
>
> However, I have not seen much in the way of good reliable
material on the
> atrocities of the Ba'ath regime. The Iraqi Foundation
have access to what
> they claim is a huge amount of stuff from Northern Iraq
and Kuwait but I
> have had problems trying to access it and I don't get the
impression that
> (after a very long period and with a great deal of money)
much has been
> done
> to process it. Same for the Indict website though its
witness statements
> are
> the best thing I know of in that line. But considering
the resources at
> their disposal ($3m dollars from the US government) and
compared to the
> amount of stuff put out by the anti-war, anti-occupation
side it really
> isn't very good.
>
> Tom's main pont that mass graves with thousands of bodies
should be easily
> confirmed by photographic and other evidence seems to me
valid and I
> myself
> feel sure that such evidence exists. I would be grateful
if someone -
> Colin,
> Eric or Yasser for example - would point me to it.
>
> Yours
>
> Peter
>
> > From: "Colin Rowat" <c.rowat@espero.org.uk>
> > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 21:16:28 -0000
> > To: <CASI-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk>
> > Subject: RE: [casi] Another bogus mass grave story -
from LA Times
> >
> >> I have a backlog of mass graves stories to discuss, I
will
> >> try and get through them in the next few days. ...
> >> http://www.latsi.com/latsipix/0506lat1.jpg
> >>
> >> In this photo a man is shown digging with his hand
into a
> >> sand dune, that looks identical to all the other sand
dunes
> >> in the area (in the article we are also told this area
is
> >> prone to flooding!!!).
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Do you have any first hand experience with mass
graves?  I am fortunate
> not
> > to, but find it quite reasonable to imagine that the
photo is accurate -
> > although revolting to engage in a process of coolly
wondering about this:
> if
> > you shoot pleading people in the head at a sandy place,
it seems to me
> that
> > the sand will gradually blow over their bodies, forming
dunes of the sort
> in
> > the photograph.
> >
> > Let us suppose, though, that this is not the case, and
that the photo is
> > concocted.  Is this relevant?  If someone is asked to
strike a pose for
> a
> > camera, that does not in any way alter the truth of the
accompanying
> story.
> >
> > What is the story?  You dismiss it as "the 'I was shot
and left to die in
> a
> > mass grave, but crawled out under cover of darkness to
tell all'
> variation,
> > an old favourite in the mass grave atrocity genre."  I
find sneering
> like
> > this at mass murder - I assume that you are not
doubting that the Anfal
> > campaign took place - deeply offensive.  This attitude
also seems to me
> to
> > be found in some of sanctions' most distasteful
advocates: the old
> 'starving
> > children' variation on sanctions, or 'baby funerals',
or doubting Unicef
> > because they hired Iraqis.  A closer comparison,
although different in
> > scale, is to Holocaust denial.
> >
> > I, for one, am not interested in you dumping
your 'backlog' of mass
> grave
> > stories onto this list.  I do not feel that your e-mail
has contributed
> to
> > my understanding of mass graves in Iraq, or - more
relevant to the
> list's
> > mandate - the current humanitarian situation in Iraq.
It has made me
> feel
> > unclean.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Colin Rowat
> >
> > work | Room 406, Department of Economics | The
University of Birmingham
> |
> > Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK | web.bham.ac.uk/c.rowat | (
44/0) 121 414 3754
> |
> > (+44/0) 121 414 7377 (fax) | c.rowat@bham.ac.uk
> >
> > personal | (+44/0) 7768 056 984 (mobile) | (+44/0) 7092
378 517 (fax) |
> > (707) 221 3672 (US fax) | c.rowat@espero.org.uk
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against
Sanctions on Iraq.
> > To unsubscribe, visit
> http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
> > To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-
admin@lists.casi.org.uk
> > All postings are archived on CASI's website:
http://www.casi.org.uk
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against
Sanctions on Iraq.
> To unsubscribe, visit
> http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
> To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-
admin@lists.casi.org.uk
> All postings are archived on CASI's website:
http://www.casi.org.uk
>




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To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk


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