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Re: [casi] from Lithuania

"intervention of Americans, British, Polish and (my
God!) even Lithuania and Thailand in Iraq's affairs?"
-possibly better directed at the fact Mongolians are there, recalling their
last visit.
"Even Lithuania"-  this is "New Europe" now (showing a complete grasp of
history and geography).

-I think the Lithuanian contribution in Iraq is limited to doctors and
dentists (the few troops being busy in Afghanistan), but the Lithuanian
state and once empire (and joint Lithuanian-Polish state before division
between Russia, Prussia and Austria) is more used to resisting occupation,
repelling the Papal issued Northern Crusades against Lithuania (1147-1410)
defeating the Teutonic Knights (thereby being the last country to adopt
Christianity in Europe), and was the first to free herself from Soviet
occupation (by mass protests and some martyrs) among her independence

-The president, Rolandas Paksas, did send a trade delegation, although few
businesses had expressed any interest in participating in construction
tenders. (One Lithuanian company has a contract now- Montuotojas, an
engineering company, will build 90 oil reservoirs).

-The president is sending his adviser on foreign affairs, Alvydas
Medalinskas, to look at the possibility of Lithuania appointing a
representative in Iraq (present arrangement is only from the embassy in

Hope all is well,
Andy Hagan (in Lithuania).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hassan Zeini" <>
To: "CASI" <>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: [casi] Media and press agencies cooperating in faking mass
grave sites?

I have always believed in giving people the benefit of
the doubt, accepting what they claimed until proven

I am now glad that Muhamad Ali has explained a
mystery: his limited vocabulary is only a reflection
of his lack of first hand knowledge of Iraq and its
affairs. Terms like "apologists" and "loony ultra
leftists" only reveal shallowness in thinking. Here
too I am giving Muhamad the benefit of the doubt!

I am neither a "Saddam apologist" nor a "loony ultra
leftist", nor for that matter a "loony ultra
rightist", but a normal human being with a brain of
his own, and with a gift of thinking on my own without
edicts and orders from anyone. To accuse everyone who
opposes the illegal US occupation of Iraq of belonging
to one of the above two groups is an indication of an
inability to see things within their real context. And
it is, above all, self-deceiving..

Since when did the "left" become bad? When communist
states were helping Barzani in his separatist
aspirations in the 1950s, providing him with money and
weapons? Or when Talbani became a "Maoist" because the
Soviet Union had become "rightist"? Did you call
Barzani and Talbani and those who helped them "loony
ultra leftists", or did that happen only after Barzani
and Talbani started cooperating with the CIA and the
Mossad in the 1970s??

I, for one, have always opposed US interventionist
policy anywhere in the world: from the days when I was
a student until now. As teenagers, we marched in
support of the Algerian resistance to French
occupation; in support of Egyptian resistance to the
tripartite invasion. As we grew older, we marched
against the Vietnam war; against the corruption of the
Arif government in Iraq; and against the bloody coup
in Chile. We opposed the military coups in Greece and
Turkey, and supported the struggle of nations for
independence.. We volunteered to go and fight besides
our brothers in Syria and Egypt against Israel.. We
attacked the US Embassy in Baghdad on June 5, 1967 for
its support of Israel, and stood behind our beliefs
and ideals at any cost.
Where were you during that time, Mr. Morality??
Studying in the UK??

At a time when such opposition was considered treason,
we opposed the invasion of Iran, even though any other
government would have done the same. The great US of
A, which you seemingly worship, openly declares its
right to resort to pre-emptive attacks to protect its
interests. It attacked Iraq on that basis, something
you support, but condemn Iraq's invasion of Iran. The
Iranian revolution was a threat to the state of Iraq
and other states in the area, and that is why the US
supported Saddam in his war against it. That is how US
support should be seen: as emanating from protecting
US interests, not for the love of black Arab eyes, or
not-so-black Kurdish eyes...

Iraq was not alone in using chemical weapons: Iran had
a larger stock of it, supplied by the US to the Shah,
and these weapons were used against Iraq. In fact,
Saddam's weapons programs were all because of fear of
an Iranian attack, especially after talk of "exporting
the revolution".

And, like has been said, there are conflicting views
on which side it was that used chemicals in Halabja.
As God is my witness, I cried the day I saw the images
from that tragedy at Halabja. But with the increasing
number of revelations of lies and fabrications, I do
not find reason to believe ANY American or British
official explanation or accusation. And I therefore
tend to give Iraq the benefit of the doubt.. Whoever
used those weapons, Talbani should be held responsible
for that massacre, because it was his handing of
Halabja to the Iranians that caused the tragedy.

So, Muhamad, where have you been all your life?

Where were you when Iraqi children were dying at the
rate of 5000 a month; 170 a day;7 every hour; one
every 9 minutes, for 13 years??
Where were you when the US used DU, vacuum bombs,
petrol bombs, and stupid bombs against Iraqis?
Where were you when Barzani and Talbani were shelling
each other's bases and towns with artillery, killing
thousands of Kurds?
Where were you when Iraqis were drinking
non-sterilized water, because the US did not let them
fix their stations nor buy chlorine?
Where were you when Iraqis were without electricity,
without medicine, without the basic requirements of
life, because the US kept those contracts on hold?
Where were you when Iraqis were undergoing operations
without anaesthesia because the US decided that
anaesthesia is not medicine??

When you have the moral courage and the decency to
reply to these questions in all honesty, then you can
start judging people's morals and ethics.

It is indeed for the Iraqi people to judge Saddam's
rule, the last war and the Iraqi Governing Council.
And that is exactly what I am doing here, and I am
more entitled to do that than you or any Iraqi who has
not been to Iraq since 1958......

But how do you apply that principle to the
intervention of Americans, British, Polish and (my
God!) even Lithuania and Thailand in Iraq's affairs?
Why is it alright for those to bomb "your country" for
13 years, starve "your" people, give them diseases and
poverty, but when someone from the citizens of those
countries criticizes these actions, you jump to attack
Are Americans familiar with "the language, culture and
way of life of Iraq, and its political complexities"
would you say? Are you??
Did the Americans and British "have the common
courtesy to ask" Iraqis if they want to be bombed to
the Middle Ages; deprived of food, medicine and

You seem to be the one issuing Fatwas from the comfort
of your "ivory tower" in Hackney..

You ask: "How could those who were neither born in
Iraq, nor lived there, nor even followed the tragic
situation in Iraq in the pre-Gulf war past, be more
Iraqi than Iraqis themselves?"

And I ask you the same question. You have left Iraq,
according to your writing, in 1958, about the same
time Ahmad al-Chalabi left it. You have not lived the
rule of Qassim, the rule of the Arif brothers, and the
rule of the Ba'th Party. You do not understand what
war means. You do not understand what it means to be
without medicine and food. You have followed the
tragic situation in Iraq as much as any person in the
West has; through relatives and friends and the media.
Some have even gone to live in Iraq, which you didn't.
Having been born in Iraq, does not give you the right
to deny others their right to their opinions, nor are
you more entitled to "speak on Iraq than the entire
loony leftists of this wide world". For someone who
has lived 45 years in the UK, your sense of democracy
still has echoes of Barzani tribal thought..

And if we go by your rule, we should not let the
people at IPO express their opinions, as they do not
fulfil your requirements for an Iraqi. Most of them
have not lived in Iraq more than a few weeks at birth,
and thus are not entitled to speak on Iraq nor "be
more Iraqi than Iraqis themselves".. Or should we
apply the rule only to those who oppose the US
occupation of Iraq??

Let us also see who can talk about Iraq.

Hamid Al-Bayati, the representative of SCIRI in
London, whose real name is Tahir Asfahani, and who is
an Iranian?
Or the former representative of SCIRI in Syria and now
Minister of Agriculture,
Baqir Solagh? For over twenty years he used the name
Bayan Jabr, and claimed he is an Arab Iraqi from
al-Zubaidi tribe. Only now we discover his real name
and that he is of Persian stock..

The markers of Saddam's apologists, as you call them,
apply to those who supported the sanctions against
Iraq, the bombing and death of Iraqis, and the
occupation of their country.

Next time, before you sit at the computer to punch in
your message, Muhamad, check your facts and research
the subject. You might learn something!


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