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Re: [casi] Mass Graves




Dear List,

It is one thing to be simple, and another thing to
think that everyone else is also simple. And when one
takes a stand and argues history, one should KNOW that
history. That, unfortunately, is not what Muhamad
Ali's post reveals..

<The American/ Allied troops committed the "Turkey
shoot" mass burying of Iraqi soldiers in 1991 on the
road from Liberated Kuwait towards Basrah.>

The "Turkey shoot" was NOT the mass burial of Iraqi
soldiers, but a shooting attack by US and British
planes on columns of withdrawing cars, buses and
trucks, containing soldiers and civilians from many
nationalities, including Kuwaitis who were escaping
the US approach..
The burial of Iraqis happened at the Kuwaiti border,
when huge earthmovers were used to bury Iraqis inside
their trenches, because the US army didn't want to
face them. There was no shooting in the burial..

<All other sites, further north, are where Saddam's
military/security forces massacred Iraqi civilians,
men, women and children, following the uprising of
1991, bfore and since then.>

No one denies that Saddam's security apparatus
executed and massacred Iraqis, of all sects, ages and
political affiliations. But we tend to forget that the
uprising of 1991 did itself get involved in similar
crimes against members of the Ba'ath regime and their
families, against supporters of Saddam, and against
his officers and officials. During that chaotic time,
people settled personal accounts and tribal feuds too.
Like what is happening now: kill an enemy and accuse
him of being a Saddam's man.. Easy!!
But one question forces itself on us: if all those
were executed by Saddam, why would part of them be
buried in plastic bags with their identity cards with
them?? Whoever buried those victims, wanted them to be
identified later, and that is NOT how cold blooded
murderers work... Something to ponder..

<As Iraqis, we hold Saddam's regime, public enemy
number 1, as
directly or indirectly responsible for all that has
befallen the Iraqi people ever since his first
assassination attempt on the IRAQI REPUBLIC on 8th
February 1963.>

First, Muhamad Ali can talk in his name and not in the
name of Iraqis. I haven't authorized him to talk in my
name nor as far as I can see have the other 26 million
Iraqis.. We also have to stop, and explain to Muhamad
that Saddam Hussein was NOT involved in the
coup/revolution of February 1963. Saddam was then a
political refugee in Egypt, and he was a junior member
in the Ba'ath party. It is a bit dishonest to blame
him of things that happened when he was outside Iraq;
just like blaming Clinton for the invasion of Panama!

<Also as Liberated Iraqis>

I find that statement laughable and pitiful. I can not
understand how a person can try to fool himself in
such a transparent way! The Americans and British have
officially admitted that they are OCCUPATION forces in
Iraq. Yet, some "Iraqis" insist on calling the
occupation a "liberation". I understand the need to
convince oneself that one was right, but that doesn't
change the fact that Iraq is occupied, and the UN
Security Council has recognized that fact...

<we are dismayed by detractors and apologists of
Saddam>

It remains Muhamad's and his friends' prerogative to
be dismayed by any opinion. The democracy he and
others have been preaching us and which they claim
they want for Iraq means tolerating other opinions. On
a list whose main objective is to campaign against
Sanctions, we tolerated Muhamad's and others' attacks
and insults and sanctions-supporting, war-inciting
posts, because we believe in the right of people to
express their opinions. Perhaps Muhamad has come to
the wrong group, because this group is not intended to
support CIA backed propaganda or sanctions, nor
advocate attacking Iraq and the death of thousands of
Iraqis to satisfy someone's agenda which has only one
item in it: the overthrow of Saddam at any price..
This list has worked selflessly for years against
sanctions and against the injustice that has been
imposed on Iraqis; it has never supported Saddam's
regime, but not the sanctions or the attacks either.
No one has any agenda except the alleviation of the
suffering of the Iraqis. If Muhamad thinks that not
supporting his agenda is "manipulation", then he has a
lot to learn about words and about actions too..

Muhamad does not have a monopoly on suffering; all
Iraqis have suffered, but unlike him, most opposed
sanctions and war. What is Muhamad's cause which he
claims others have highjacked: the overthrow of Saddam
at any price?? That is considered "just", regardless
of how many Iraqis die in the process??

"Occupied" Iraqis do not accept the concept of the
ends justifying the means, because that is an immoral
concept. That is exactly how Saddam based his regime:
his ends were the absolute control of Iraq, because
like every politician he believed he was right... And
so to achieve his goal, he didn't mind using any
means. Is that Muhamad's idea of just and right??

Iraqis indeed expect and deserve all the help they can
get from others, but it is too naïve to think that
Iraqis will be fooled into believing that those who
have kept them under complete blockade for 13 years
are suddenly the ones who care for them.. The ones
responsible for their suffering and the death of their
beloved ones through sanctions and bombs can not bring
them anything good...I have followed Iraqis through
several satellite channels' programs, reports and
discussions, and I can tell you that the absolute
majority of Iraqis know that the US is only interested
in its interests, not in Iraqis or in their
"liberation". The way the US has backed up from all
its previous commitments and promises only strengthens
those views, and they all know the US wants their oil,
and they can then go to hell; all of them, including
those who came on the backs of US tanks and in their
military planes...

The same words can be said to Muhamad: refrain from
speaking in the name of the Iraqis. Otherwise, the
Iraqis message is: NOT IN OUR NAME. Certainly, not in
mine...

Regards,
Hassan


He who knows not and knows not he knows not,
He is a fool- Shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not,
He is simple- Teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows,
He is asleep-Awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows,
He is wise- follow him.


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