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[casi] Re: A last minute plea to CASI members--pls edorse and send CASI

Dear Tom, Alun & List,

Are AI & other human rights organisations Faustian? They seem to be
'accused' of dealing with cosmetic changes, but ignoring the real issues -
is that unfair? Underlying causes should certainly not be ignored, e.g.
underlying causes for terrorism, for warfare.or for any kind of discontent,
minor or major. Did Charlie Marx say something about not just philosophising
about the world, but changing it? Amnesty International, does that include

I hope I haven't acted out of turn, but I have forwarded part of this
discussion to several relevant groups. And I hope no-one thinks this whole
discussion is off-topic - Iraq needs water, food, sanitation, housing etc. &
a normal, orderly existence. That, very much, includes human rights.


Bert G.

>From: nagy <>
>To: "bob.steel1" <>, Alun Harford
><>, Bert Gedin <>, casi-discuss
>CC: gedinbert <>,
>Subject: A last minute plea to CASI members--pls edorse and send CASI
>Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:57:41 -0400
>Dear Alun et al.,
>   I am comming to the conclusion that the deal struck with the devil by AI
>many of their ilk, is to attack the proximate cause of torture and other
>attrocities, but underplay the underlying causes such as the lust for
>the world and full specral dominance by empires such as  the U.S.
>    The win for AI is that it is not hassled by the U.S.G., but the
>downside is
>that AI  is never permitted (or self-censors itself ) to refrain from
>sustained attack  on underlying causes if these are the policy of a super
>power like the U.S. gov.
>    Case in point, the ad campaign that AI  rightly directs at select  evil
>dicttators while never hinting  that said dictators  were set up and are
>in power by the U.S. gov.
>    E.g., has AI  made a a high visibility "prisoner of conscience" of
>and other members of the Int. Solidarity Team rotting in Israeli jails or
>being kicked out of Isreal or being beaten,  or being denied entry into
>Istrael for acting  nonviolently on the premeise that all people are
>to human rights, even Palestinians? Wonder if the  the horrific murder of
>woman run over by an armored Istrael gov. buldozer which then backed up and
>ran her over a second time did not turn into a big deal at AI or similar
>respectable gropus of its ilk. Am I wrong about all or any of this?
>I hope so, but doubt it....
>    The worse example of "worthy" vs "unworthy" victims is provided by  the
>International  Holocaust Museum here in D.C., largely funded by the
>IHM   mandate includes preventing genocide. the IHM has issued genocide
>and warnings, but never on the  impending 3rd genocide of Iraq  by US
>government's  causual procrastination in permitting, contrary to Geneva,
>treatment plants running out of clorine in S. Iraq  in a matter of just a
>few days. This situation is particularly ghastly in view of the speculative
>nature of IHM genocide alerts and warning on comparatively flimsy
>in the case of "worth" victims. This stands in stark contrast with the
>depletion of chlorine which cause genocide on a grand scale and  was
>even by the BBC as early as April (but not reported on since, if memory
>     As usual, Bert raisis the urgent questions that are all too often
>by "respectable"  high profile intellectuals and their insitutes,
>all to often  in my view, by  CASI itself.
>    For an really original argument that U.S. policy on Iraq falls into a
>special category that is not technically genocide because it is even  worse
>than genocide, see Gordon's article in the Yale law journal re int.
>law and justice.
>  hanging on, mosty  out of a sense of ethic responsibilit a la Szilard to
>   Please CASI contributers respond with your inate courage and compassion
>to ,
>to describe and produce actions which can be quickly adopted to shame the
>US/UK to do the right thing before yet another genocide "happens" in Iraq.
>quote another Brit(?), I swear it's not too late.
> >===== Original Message From Alun Harford <> =====
> >--- Bert Gedin <> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Tom & List,
> >>
> >> It may be very useful to lobby Amnesty
> >> International, esp. as you have
> >> unique knowledge, in these matters. And for others
> >> too. Personally, I have
> >> reservations about AI. Whilst I certainly wouldn't,
> >> as some dismiss the
> >> organisation out of hand (I am a member), I really
> >> do wonder if, re.
> >> sanctions on Iraq, AI didn't keep an unduly low
> >> profile. They would say, so
> >> I believe, that sanctions were outside their remit.
> ><snip>
> >They are far from being outside their remit!
> >Amnesty International's vision is of a world in which
> >every person enjoys all of the human rights enshrined
> >in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other
> >international human rights standards.
> >
> >
> >Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
> >
> >Article 3.
> >Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security
> >of person.
> >
> >Alun Harford
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> >
>Thomas J. Nagy, Ph.D.
>Assoc. Prof. of Expert Systems
>George Washington Univeristy Sch. of Business & Public Mgt.
>Washington, D.C. 20052

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