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This is a response to Yasser Alaskary's comments on the article "Doctors tell how children's deaths became propaganda" By Matthew McAllester, May 24 2003. It is the reporter, McAllester, who is calling these children's death "propaganda". But can death be called propaganda? What does Yasser think? --- Dear Yasser and List, > But as always, we were ignored and attacked. To this, I'd feel tempted to invoke that famous Rhett Butler quote again. But I'll womanfully resist. Instead, I will remind you, Yasser, of what dear, wise Ghazwan once told you when _you_ personally attacked him: "Son finish your college first. Don't expect to rule Iraq soon. The CIA has at least 6 MATURE army generals being considered." (Re: [casi] March yesterday, 9 Apr 2002) As it is, people have only your writing to go by. I myself have always thought of you IPOers as adorable, impetuous yuppies with perhaps some growing pain, if I may say so. The fact that you bring up such personal considerations as _being ignored_, seems to suggest a certain amount of narcism - often found in the emotionally young. But you'll grow out of it, no doubt. In any case, you can't have been both "ignored and attacked" - if you think about it logically. As to being "ignored": anything but, I'd say. You have drawn the limelight on CASI - not to mention the BBC and other glamour spots. And as to being attacked: If by 'attack' you mean ad hominem arguments - ie, attacking the character or motives of an opponent rather than debating the issue on logical grounds - I have found no evidence of this on CASI. No-one has attacked you in this way, Yasser. But you yourself have hurled quite a few ad hominems at individual members, at anti-sanctions and anti-war proponents, and at the list as a whole. - But this is just for the record. Naturally, people have debated the controversial issues you threw at them: they have often disagreed with you, and challenged the validity and logic of your assertions. They have also taken the liberty of expressing their own opinions. But to call this an 'attack' is illogical. And you, a champion for democratic rights, wouldn't want to stifle freedom of expression, would you? Now some serious points: Often you were contradicted on thoughts not your own. Like everyone else, you posted articles you happened to agree with. For example, Dr B Khalaf's love for war: "And why I will not", March 9, 2003. You, for obvious reasons, avoided the word 'war' whenever possible. You spoke instead of "our calls for the removal of Saddam and his regime", etc. (Re: March yesterday, April 8, 2002) This is undeniably fine sophistry: only one person is "removed" and everyone else is left intact. In fact, you suggested that support for war is a humane thing: "I and those who care and love the Iraqi people". (ibid.) Odd logic. Still, your privilege... But not surprisingly some of your CASI readers, myself included, found it irritating that you (and yours) were lobbying for war while presenting yourself as caring persons: "As a training doctor and as a human being, my priority is to save as many lives as I can" (ibid). Amen! But let's face it by lobbying for war, you lobby for death. Another point: while posting these war/sanction supporting articles, you backed off when specific points got challenged. Your defence then was: 'It's not me, it's them' - as here: "Finally, what i pasted was an article from a British newspaper, so they are not my words and do not encompass exactly how I think or feel." (ibid) Fair enough. But I, as the reader, must assume that the poster identifies with the thoughts proffered off the peg, unless some qualification is provided. So I took it for granted that you essentially agree with the points raised in this article: "Doctors tell how children's deaths became propaganda" By Matthew McAllester, May 24 2003 At least, you sound satisfied: > Hmm, doesn't sound much different to the story > we've been saying for many years. But as always, > we were ignored and attacked. Here is a paragraph from this article that I find especially disturbing - ie, the reporter's wording, and the thoughts behind: "The parents were ordered to wail with grief - no matter how many weeks had passed since their babies had died - and to shout to the cameras that the sanctions had killed their children, the doctors said. Afterwards, the parents would be rewarded with food or money." Now this article alleges that "Saddam turned the children's deaths into propaganda". 'Propaganda', by definition, is something 'inaccurate' or 'biased', such as information. I find it obscene on part of this reporter to claim that death - the death of children - is propaganda. And I also find the wording in this paragraph obscene: he is belittling the grief of parents. He states, for example, "were ordered to wail with grief..." Is he suggesting you can _order_ people to grieve? Or worse, is he saying that parents only grieved because they were told to - and rewarded for it? Then he says, "no matter how many weeks had passed". Does he suggest parents only grieve briefly for a child - that you turn grief on and off like a TV? Has this man ever known grief? Lost someone he loved? Or known people who have lost... Anyway, it seems to me that he's writing propaganda of a different kind, at the cost of human beings - parents and dead children. So I was wondering, Yasser, if you as training doctor and human being, fully identify with this man... if this is exactly how you think or feel? If you agree with recycling alleged propaganda as USUK propaganda - at the cost of Iraqi parents? ---- When I think of Iraqi parents, especially mothers, I see them through the eyes of an Austrian doctor. Here she has just witnessed the death of child (this is February 2001): "At the Mother and Child hospital in Basra, 560 km southeast of Baghdad, I am present while a nine-year- old girl is dying. The mother sits motionless at her daughter's death bed, frozen in grief. This is her fourth child. All four children have died of leukaemia." And here she tries to describe the feeling of hopelessness she senses in the mothers she meets at the hospital: "The expression in the eyes of these mothers is always the same: resignation, hopelessness, apathy. They know that their children are condemned to death. And the sadness and despair in the eyes of these mothers is very hard to bear." Regards, Elga Sutter ----------------Original Message---------------- From: "Yasser Alaskary" <ya1980@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [casi] Doctors tell how children's deaths became propaganda Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:54:44 +0100 >Yes, of course the sanctions hurt - but not too >much, because we are a rich country and we have the ability to get everything we can by money. >But instead, he spent it on his palaces." Hmm, doesn't sound much different to the story we've been saying for many years. But as always, we were ignored and attacked. Only a few weeks ago the IPO spokeswoman, Sama Hadad, was questioned and sometimes attacked for the interview she gave on the moral maze regarding the answer she gave for sanctions - namely that they hurt but it's Saddam that made them what they were. Surely, the focus should now be on aiding reconstruction, trying to get the economy back into stride, forming democratic institutions to aid in the transition period, etc. Iraq needs a lot of help, especially now. if people can put aside their ideologies and work to help the Iraqi people then maybe the disasters that this great nation has suffered can never be repeated. best wishes Yasser Alaskary Iraqi Prospect Organisation _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk