The following is an archived copy of a message sent to a Discussion List run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

Views expressed in this archived message are those of the author, not of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

[Main archive index/search] [List information] [Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]


[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [casi] Beginning of the End of our Struggle for freedom



Many responses only one not openly hostile- what was expected in fact. Not
many references-even passing- to significance of the end of saddam's rule.
also expected.
Some points- I cant really address all of the responses- :

1) not good for saddam to go as he was supported in the past by US?
one cannot have it both ways: if saddam was installed by US, his rule
determined by them and is also being removed by them, then US has in fact
complete control of iraqi governance already-  so why would they need to
occupy it to get the "oil on a plate?"
things in fact are more complicated. US policy is not in fact monlithic
entity which can be ascribed particular motives (unlike saddam who as a
dictator had total control). it is a complex dynamic of different interest
groups which resolves mostly to the mutual benefit of those groups. it is
nowhere near perfect. but given the choice i would rather have that system
in place in baghdad- florida miscounts, jewish lobby and all- than saddam.
incredibly some casi members may not even agree with this, so much is Bush
hated on this list. but let me say then: soddam may still be alive- you are
welcome to him.

Whatever else you say, Bush is acting in the US national interest, a basic
thing that saddam did not do for us.
and if he was their stooge then that is saddam's failure not america's
problem-they are not bound to serve iraqi interests. and as i said before i
dont claim that saddam was toppled for our benefit by america- they have
thier interests- but we can use the situation to benefit from it. they can
try and try to impose their Chalabi's but it will only occur if we iraqis
let it. as a democracy they cant simply kill us and our famillies for
dissenting from their views, (something saddam did) just like they had to be
careful to minimise casualties in the war. (even casi members who forecasted
millions of deaths may be gracious enough to admit this- no sorry i assume
too much)

2) Tim, you are right my history is not very good- not as good as many casi
members. but then i dont subscribe much to the marxist dialectic and
historical determinism so have not studied it as much as others may have.
One thing that i know from history is that US actions at the moment compare
favourably with those of previous hegemons in history. Can one even compare
Caesar's invasion of Gaul? Or British colonial wars? In fact the putting
down of the "iraqi rebellion" in the 20's? [But i don't go as far as
condemning Blair for that].

3) how do we deal with american power? simply criticising does not diminish
american power, if that is what we want to do. The only useful thing to do
is help support and encourage alternative power centres. iraq is not big
enough for this role. the arab middle east as a whole is. yet, we arabs too
busy complaining of america, dont have a clue as to how a common block can
be formed amongst ourselves. US is a hindrance- but then wake up folks how
else should/would a hegemon respond to a prospective usurper?

Enough of facile critique of US policy. You all have better things to do i'm
sure.
For god sake the "project for new american century" blah blah boils down to
US wanting to have more and more world power and control. it is not a
conspiracy theory. Did any of you expect the pentagon to come up with a
"plan for a new chinese century." they are doing what they need to do. if
only we stopped talking of that and did what is required for our future.


AK salih






>From: "Bert Gedin" <gedinbert@hotmail.com>
>To: akarimsalih@hotmail.com, casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk
>CC: gedinbert@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: [casi] Beginning of the End of our Struggle for freedom
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:25:08 +0000
>
>
>Dear AK,
>
>You seem rather critical of the CASI list. But, believe it or not, many on
>this list, to which you seem to be a guest, have been critical of
>Saddam Hussein since a number of years. In your praise of US/UK leaders,
>do you recall with who's help the Baathists came to power, and who, outside
>Iraq itself, supported SH, when it was expedient to do so? Have you ever
>considered what the real motivations of esp. the US, but also
>Britain, really are? Do you think that what has driven them is
>democratisation for the Iraqi peoople?
>
>It is hoped you will not forget to spare some thoughts for the very many
>maimed for life, or killed, in this war (and, yes, also by Saddam
>Hussein!),
>of those who now are orphaned or homeless or in hopital, those who have
>seen
>family or friends suffer and die. Please remember, too, the hundreds of
>thousands of innocent children, who died because of brutal sanctions
>(because the price, the politicians told us, was worth it!
>
>Your hopes, for a better future, is something we would share in. For the
>present, whilst the shooting and bombings continue, whilst there is
>major criminality looting & general mayhem, either by those in uniform or
>in
>civilian clothes, it is plain for all to see that the after-effects of
>this,
>by international standards, illegal war will remain, for many years to
>come.
>Not everyone, in Baghdad, or elsewhere in Iraq, will have reason to be
>dancing in the streets.
>
>With kind regards,
>
>Bert Gedin.
>
>
>>From: "abdul karim salih" <akarimsalih@hotmail.com>
>>To: casi-discuss@lists.casi.org.uk
>>Subject: [casi] Beginning of the End of our Struggle for freedom
>>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:19:31 +0000
>>
>>
>>Thankyou Mr Bush and Blair for ending the murderous rule of Saddam.
>>Whether
>>you did it for us, or for oil; whether Un approved it or not etc. IT STILL
>>NEEDED DOING! This is first glimmer of hope for 30 years.
>>Yes Iraq still has problems, like possible American occupation, but in
>>worst
>>case scenario, even the most avid Saddamites and Bush haters cannot claim
>>that American rule- subject to democratic pressures- can be worse than
>>brutal dictators. And the peaceniks need to know and remember that fact.
>>Yes it is like the falling of the Eastern European regimes- not least
>>because Saddam(?) is a Baathist=Communist; another thing which makes
>>leftwing peaceniks uncomfortable. These people are just coming out of
>>denial
>>about the collapse of their beloved Soviet Union and now their in denial
>>about the collapse of Arab Communism. To the extent that they are
>>disgusted
>>by and explaining away Iraqi celebration at saddam's collapse. why should
>>people suffering for 3o years keep quiet because of a particular armchair
>>reading of US foreign policy motives.
>>No matter what people say remember that Bush had domestic support for
>>launching an offensive whereas saddam was such a loser that he couldn't
>>even
>>persuade his people to defend THEIR OWN COUNTRY against invasion. such a
>>dreadful leader who has deliberately acted against the Iraqi national
>>interest for 3 decades had to go.
>>What about the suffering? We have suffered for 30 years and no one noticed
>>and now it is coming to an end we are being asked to relive our
>>nightmares.
>>Whose side are CASI subscribers on- did you want us to continue suffering
>>under Saddam?
>>
>>Let us hope for a better future for Iraq post-Saddam. We have had to live
>>without even hope for so long.
>>
>>AK Salih
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
>>To unsubscribe, visit
>>http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
>>To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
>>All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
>To unsubscribe, visit
>http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
>To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
>All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk


_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger


_______________________________________________
Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss
To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk
All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk


[Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]