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Thank you, Hassan, for putting the record straight and filling in details. Sorry about mangling facts and events. Needless to say, I know very little about the actual happenings, let alone the complexities. And I look at it from a 'foreign intervention' perspective - in this case the US. So I was tempted to use the strongest interpretation of the CIA coup involvement I could find. What prompted me to bring this up was your exchange with the IPO spokesperson. But I should have been more to the point. I agree with what you said to the spokesperson. Your rebuttal seems reasonable to me. And my reaction to people who advocate, from a safe distance, the bombing of their compatriots (or any other human beings) as an act of 'liberation' is the same as yours. The claim that this is what _most_ Iraqis want sounds like sheer arrogance, if not ignorance. And why the euphemism? Bombing is bombing. But the US/UK governments and the western media generally seem to have the misguided notion that the victim's _approval_ would make the intended slaughter palatable. And they hope that the 'liberation' ploy will wipe out the acts of genocide inflicted by the sanctions regime. That's why they are invoking all these 'Iraqi voices'. For IPO's interest, I am going to cite Haifa Zangana, an Iraqi writer living in London. Ms Zangana was a communist arrested and tortured in 1972. She was imprisoned for six months and left Iraq two years later, at 23. (She wrote about her experience in a novella _Through the Halls of Memory_.) Yet in September 2002 Ms Zangana wrote in the Guardian: "This war plan forces me to stand by the dictator who tortured me." This is not, of course, an endorsement of Mr. Hussein or of the status quo. It is a commitment to her people. And she has an option which the war propagandists won't permit: Ms Zangana believes that if the sanctions were lifted, Iraqis could "regain their dignity, regain their power." Once "they don't have to worry every day about finding enough to eat", she says, "they will be capable of changing the regime and dealing with this themselves. I am a great believer in the Iraqi people." But this solution wouldn't advance the interests of US hegemony, specifically the control of oil. About the much-touted 'moral case' and a 'liberating' occupation, Ms Zangana says this: As to "Saddam Hussein, he hasn't been invented out of nowhere. It's a well-known fact he's been supported by the West, supplied with all kinds of weapons along the years. We should be realistic. If we think of the long-term solution, Iraqis, no matter how much they hate Saddam, they're not going to accept any kind of occupation." Still, I can understand other views if they have the ring of sincerity and conviction. For example, another Iraqi writer, also communist living in the West, explains how he had to flee Iraq at a moment's notice. He considers his experience only. I also read the views of two Iraqi women living in Jordan, one them the writer Betool Khedairi. She is afraid of a war in Iraq, says Khedairi - doesn't explicitly advocate it. But she wants to see the isolation and the pain ended. She remembers the liberal Iraqi middle class of her youth. Women were working, Iraqis were wide open to foreign ideas and philosophies, and life was good. While also arguing from a safe distance, none of these three people actually lobbies the foreign invaders to get on with the bombing - as IPO has done. Nor do they aim ad hominem shots at Saddam Hussein or peace proponents to make their case - as IPO, and lots of other people are doing. I find the logic behind these attacks alarming. It seems to follow the Bush dictum: "you are either with us, or against us". Accordingly, bombing is compassion; invasion is liberation; and a genocidal sanctions regime is a humanitarian program. Proponents of peace are variously described as 'Saddam's stooges, useful idiots, peace mob', etc. Opposition to war and of US foreign policy is denounced as anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, or a call for murder. The German peace movement has been called supporters of the Ba'ath Party. And von Sponeck is dubbed a 'lobbyist for Saddam Hussein'. Enough already! Why not bring back the inquisition and the stake to purge all those inconvenient dissenters. And welcome back to the Dark Ages. Instead of the crazy popes of that time, we have George Bush, fomenter of war hysteria and hatred. What I find singularly off-putting is the moral high horse the war endorsers are riding. As someone aptly said in 2001: 'The path of US foreign policy is drenched in blood.' That's why I dug out these Akins' quotes, Hassan. Akins is actually applauding the killing of hapless human beings, given that communists and leftists _are_ human beings - "a great development" he calls it. The US even _saved_ specialists from the German SS after WWII to achieve this "great development" worldwide. These people were used for guerilla (terrorist?) activities in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Klaus Barbie (Butcher of Lyon) who organized the deportation of French Jews to German gas chambers was also _saved_ by the US. He was brought to Bolivia under the name Klaus Altmann. There he worked for the CIA, setting up death squads that killed and tortured leftist politicians and trade unionists all over Latin America. (And when the law finally caught up with Barbie, he was no longer a CIA asset - 'our hands are clean'.) So the moral stance is a bit hard to take - from Bush & Co, and from the IPO spokespersons. No doubt, SH denies Iraqis the means to express themselves 'freely'. But for 12 years the US has been denying them the means to live: food, medicine, education, employment, outside contacts - and above all hope. Parents who lack food or medicine, or young people whose future has been blighted by an artificially created poverty have no strength left to yearn for political self-expression. I didn't mean to say all this, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. But that's how I feel at the eve of another barbaric crime against humanity by those who claim to defend 'civilization'. Best wishes, Elga Sutter _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email casi-discuss-admin@lists.casi.org.uk All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk