The following is an archived copy of a message sent to a Discussion List run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
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bert, > They give extremely useful CLUES, yes, they do. they show that the US military were aware of the results of bombing wter facilities. as Alun has pointed out, they could (indeed, probably would) claim that this was why they never did target water facilities. conversely, if it can be shown that they -did- target them, then they would not be able to deny that they knew exactly what the likely results would be. but the documents themselves -do not- provide -any proof whatsoever- that such facilities were targeted. > & it annoys me somewhat when people think so concretely, without putting > matters in context, & trying to understand the thinking, & attitudes that > underlie the action. this is unnecessarily patronising. you seem to imply that you are the only one capable of 'putting matters in context' etc. you have already (so it seems) completely misinterpreted Alun's previous post, and now you're responding to mine with what seem to be ridiculous levels of arrogance. if someone requests proof, it is not necessarily because she doesn't believe you, or because she wishes to disprove your claims. > If you want evidence of bombed water systems, then > don't restrict yourself to these documents. I sent out several other > articles, re. Iraqi Water Systems, but - quite frankly - I get the > impression that none of those have received your attention. yet more arrogance and one-upmanship. > Are you, at > all, familiar with the history of Iraq, since the Gulf War & before? Are > you knowledgable about US military history, and Britain's role in the > history of the Middle East? and even more. > - I do accept people's right to accept or > reject anything on this site. this is not about whether i accept or reject the validity of the articles you have posted. i have simply stated that i have not seen any -evidence- that water facilities were -targeted-. i -suspect- that they were; in fact, i should be surprised if they weren't. but that is not sufficient to be able to state that they were without coming across as a conspiracy theorist. > But I would prefer that the various factors > were, at least, carefully considered. again, your post is full of condescension and implicit criticism of others. the fact that people disagree with you does not mean that they are insulting you, nor does the fact that they point out the flaws in your reasoning give you carte blanche to imply that they have not 'carefully considered' the various factors. now, can we please get on with looking for/at the evidence? best, josh > Greetings, Bert. > > >> From: Josh Robinson <firstname.lastname@example.org> >> To: email@example.com >> CC: firstname.lastname@example.org >> Subject: Re: [casi] (Bert Gedin) targeting of water treatment facilities >> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:39:57 -0000 >> >> bert, >> >> you're missing the point. all the document shows is that the US military >> -were aware of the consequences of bombing water facilities-. it DOES >> NOT provide any evidence that those facilities were targeted, or even >> hit. it is in that sense that it is 'useless'. >> >> whatever our 'common sense' tells us, this document cannot be used as >> -evidence- that such facilities were hit. and even if there is evidence >> that water facilities were -hit- (i would be somewhat surprised if there >> weren't), even that will not be sufficient to show that they were >> -targeted-. >> >> now, if any of this evidence is out there, then i think that lots of us >> would be very glad (if that's the right word) to see it. >> >> josh >> >> --On Saturday, January 25, 2003 06:12 +0000 Bert Gedin >> <email@example.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Dear Alun, >>> >>> Aren't you jumping to (unfounded) conclusions? A useless document? The >>> US military NOT bombing Iraqi infra-structure? Do you really believe >>> that Iraqi water systems have never been bombed? The US military may be >>> full of really nice people, but it is those very "really nice people" >>> who cause so much havoc, including "collateral damage". Maybe you're >>> underestimating CASI - it includes a number of experts in politics, >>> science etc., as well as ordinary folks with plenty of common sense. >>> CASI is no "ship of fools"! >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Bert. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: Alun Harford <firstname.lastname@example.org> >>>> To: email@example.com >>>> Subject: Re: [casi] (Bert Gedin) targeting of water treatment >>>> facilities Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 08:34:29 -0800 (PST) >>>> >>>> > Dear Alun & List, >>>> > >>>> > The Report you refer to had already been provided by >>>> > Dr. Eric Herring, >>>> > this last Friday. However, my appreciation for so >>>> > kindly trying to be >>>> > helpful. - It would be good if some others, with >>>> > expertise or with accurate >>>> > knowledge, or sources, could join this discussion. >>>> > Not neccessarily with a >>>> > strong political message, just to demonstrate some >>>> > eesential facts. Perhaps >>>> > a few of our Iraqi friends would like to contribute? >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, the document is pretty useless from the >>>> point of view of CASI - the US military will say that >>>> they produced it so that their generals knew not to >>>> bomb water treatment facilities. They will continue to >>>> deny that they hit them and if CASI raised the issue >>>> in the media it'd just look like a bunch of conspirisy >>>> theorists who don't have a clue what they're doing - >>>> which is why the documents could be safely >>>> declassified. They prove nothing. >>>> Read it thinking "The US military is full of really >>>> nice people" and you'll see what I mean (and then >>>> probably be violently sick afterwards). >>>> >>>> Alun >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________ >>>> Do you Yahoo!? >>>> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >>>> http://mailplus.yahoo.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. >>>> To unsubscribe, visit >>>> http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss >>>> To contact the list manager, email firstname.lastname@example.org >>>> All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger >>> http://messenger.msn.co.uk >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. >>> To unsubscribe, visit >>> http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the >>> list manager, email email@example.com All postings >>> are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends > http://messenger.msn.co.uk > _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email firstname.lastname@example.org All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk