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Hi Mr Al-Hilli, You make the point that the one cannot compare US atrocities with Baath atrocities. Why not? Why don't we ask the families of the between 2 and 4 million Indo-Chinese killed in the US aggression against Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, if regime change is required in the US? With respect I must say that I think you are using a double standard, which makes the US look like the good guys. Just because it was the Vietnamese who were massacred and not US citizens does not make it any less of an atrocity. Best wishes, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ali Al-Hilli" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: <email@example.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:05 PM Subject: [casi] In reply to Mr Stroope Hi Mr Stroope You said: 'The United States of America and its Capitalist government. Correct me if I am wrong but the atrocities of the USA dwarf the atrocities of SH. Yet, in our sanctions busting dialogue we don't ever speak of toppling the regime of the USA'. With all respect, what do you know about the atrocities of Saddam. I totally agree with you that the US have committed many crimes and atrocities, but the capitalist government of US has been there for so long and with many different leaders, in addition to the support of many Americans and a fit economy, its virtually impossible to change the government, and if it was possible, change it to what? Its absolutely incomparable to Iraq. Iraq, 35 years ago was a prosperous country, its political position was stable, economy was fit and people were reasonably wealthy. In came the Baath party of Saddam. What Iraq saw since then was war after war, continuous murder and executions of the Iraqi opposition by the regime, poverty, sanctions on the Iraqi people (not Saddam) and political instability. Saddam has killed and executed around 1.5 million Iraqis during his time: - At least 1 million Iraqis killed or injured during his war against Iran. - At least 100,000 of Iraqi opposition killed or executed during the last 34 years (since 1968). - 150,000 Iraqi soldiers killed or injured during his invasion of Kuwait. - At least 250,000 Iraqis killed after the popular uprising during March 1991 until today. - 180,000 Iraqi Kurds killed during Anfal operations against Kurds 1987-1988. - 5,000 killed by poisonous gas in Halabja on 17 -3-1988. - 50,000 killed during the destruction of the Marshes in the south. - Many died during the deportation of Iraqis to Iran during 1970- 2002. - At least 300 Turkomans killed or executed by the regime. - At least 100 of Iraqi opposition assassinated outside Iraq by Saddam's agents. - Hundreds of the ruling Baath party top members were executed by Saddam. Furthermore, 1.7 million (and continuing to rise) Iraqi children, women and men died during the economic sanctions imposed by UN because of Saddam's attempt to invade Kuwait. Saddam is also using 10 different security forces apparatus to kill or execute. He uses at least 200 methods to torture people in 300 prison and detention centres in Iraq. Is this what the Americans are going through? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a supporter of the US, but I think you cannot logically compare the atrocities in Iraq and US, mainly because of its different political history, society and religion. You also mentioned in your first e-mail: 'Freedom of association is a constitutional right within the USA'. Rightly said. You have beautifully showed us how this law is applied in the US, by writing such an anti-US e-mail. However this law does not exit in Iraq. Anyone writes or says anything against the regime will get immediate execution, because he/she are accused of 'attempting to change the government'. (The regime has made sure people don't write anti-regime e-mails by extremely limiting internet access and making internet access available to only specific and known people). Therefore Mr Stroope, sitting comfortably in Austin College and not having the facts on what is truly happening in Iraq doesn't make you an expert in judging the atrocities in Iraq. Oh and before you hit the reply button and try to question my information, I'm an Iraqi, I've lived in Iraq under the dictatorship of Saddam and I've witnessed what mankind has never seen. So I suggest you continue criticizing your own country (as you're the expert) and let me do the Iraq bit :) Peace be upon you Ali _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email firstname.lastname@example.org All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email email@example.com All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk