The following is an archived copy of a message sent to a Discussion List run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

Views expressed in this archived message are those of the author, not of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

[Main archive index/search] [List information] [Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

[casi] no subject

Dear Bert & List

I am shocked at the way the discussion regarding AI is going.

We are either adults who can discuss and argue, agree and disagree, or then we
should stop this useless discussion.

While Bert writes: “At least we can both accept criticisms, and discuss
matters amicably”, his replies are mere personal attacks, himself showing no
tolerance or ability to accept criticism.

Ghazwan has the full right to criticise AI which, in the opinion of many, has
done too little regarding sanctions. One may disagree with Ghazwan or agree with
some of what he says, but don’t go personal. When you reply with sentences like
“for someone like Ghazwan, to hurl irresponsible abuse & accusations, despite his
shallow knowledge”, or “The agenda is crude anti-Amnesty propaganda” etc…, then I
believe a certain line has been crossed. What is wrong with Ghazwan that makes you
say "for someone like Ghazwan"? And what gives Bert the right to launch this kind
of personal attacks? This is not an "amicable discussion". Perhaps Ghazwan’s
knowledge of AI and its work is shallow, but is Bert's knowledge of Iraq’s
political and cultural history not shallow?

Bert Asks:"do you mean that A.I., by not taking a strong stance against
sanctions are therefore condoning sanctions?" My reply is: YES. If you see
something wrong and not stand strongly against it, then you condone it. This has
been the case with Israeli occupation too. It is not enough to talk about
difficult conditions and lack of resources; these are excuses. It is like Bert
himself said:"however useful any theories, one's heart has to be involved". And AI
doesn't seem to have its heart involved fully yet. I believe Philipa's recent
posts shed light on this.

Bert asks "what did you do for the Chechneyans, the East Timorese, the South
Africans during apartheid etc."? How does Bert know what any Iraqi did? Iraq and
Iraqis opposed the apartheid regime and supported the SA liberation movement, a
fact recognized by Mandela and his government. Iraq didn't have a magic wand, but
Iraq has supported EVERY LIBERATION MOVEMENT in he world. We didn't just stand
"across the street" shouting. We acted....Iraq didn't stand by watching nor
counting the strokes, like the world is doing now. Iraq supplied money and arms.
And this is a known fact. What are you doing about the right of Palestinians to a
state, based on the 1947 UN resolution which established Israel? Is Bert or AI
calling for the full implementation of those resolutions? Who ís helping
the Palestinians except Iraq now?

And I don’t see a point in insisting on knowing Ghazwan’s political
associations. Why was Ghazwan singled out, and not the other members of the list?
It is indeed Ghazwan’s prerogative to reply or not reply. Would Bert (who
seemingly hasn’t lived in Iraq, and doesn't speak Arabic) tell us what he knows
(first hand) about the Ba’ath party and why (as he seemingly does) he is against
Ba’athists? Has he formed his opinion from personal knowledge and deep study of
Ba'ath, or from reports of AI and HRW and other organizations?

Is Bert a Free Mason? We would like to know his political associations too.
Does he vote for Labour or Conservative? Does he support Zionism? If not, then how
can he accept AI’s defence of settlements and settlers' rights in occupied
Palestinian lands?

I once read an interesting comment by a British scholar. He wrote: ”Outsiders
who intervene in political or religious debate should try not to patronize those
whose ideas and convictions they challenge”. I think Bert should follow this
advice carefully.

My comments on AI will be posted later.


Take a break! It's time to play with friends in Maktoob Fun & Games. Amazing selection of fun and 
mind stimulating games.

Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.
To unsubscribe, visit
To contact the list manager, email
All postings are archived on CASI's website:

[Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]