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I think Yasser Alaskary has raised some fair questions. I think to address the appearance of such questions as "shameful" is to defend an ideology not to further a dialogue. I see no reason to assume that any suggestion of working for an end to the tyranny inside Iraq demands partnership in the Woolsey-Bush infection and Alaskary has not suggested so. I am unconvinced by the responses to Alaskary so far. I think I need to explore these issues that have haunted me since my return from Iraq much more than I need another reminder of the evilness of US evilness(which I concur is large and as a citizen a top priority as well as closer geographically for myself to face). I see the excellent cautions that are being offered by other posts. Liberators liberate. America on the otherhand... However athough this particularly willing surgeon (Washington) cannot be trusted, seeing as the last fifty years of patients have died on the table, Iraq still hungers for surgery, the removal of terror as well as siege. (Surgery is not a euphemism for violence necessarily, I am just seeking for words) We shouldn't refuse to develop avenues (not saying anyone is, I imagine everyone on the list is working quite hard at this) that might assist the Iraqi people in their quest for "dignified self rule" as opposed to whatever you wanna call the charming bit going on today. I respect von Sponeck's suggestions (alluded to in Media Lens) as one such avenue. It is however, unless I misunderstand it, dependant on the type of statesmanship that seems without a crew these days. Might someone unpack this hope a bit more. If this has been done I missed it. I am not Iraqi and make no claims to speak for Iraq. I am just trying to reflect some suspicions I pick up from listening. I wish to be clear in that by "avenues" I do not mean "blood and cleansing." I have no idea how one would make the distinction between collaborator and innocent in such a enmeshed police state. No legitimization of murder, I have no trust in such "committments" but isn't there some way for the campaign to more openly engage the regime, to make our stance on the internal tyranny as unambiguous as the stance against outside tyranny. Probably many of you do this in your words and actions as well as any of us have been able to in this mess. It just the silence in that country, the hesitation in so many spheres..I hate it. I couldn't stand my daughter being so afraid. I can't stand their sons and daughters being so afraid. I know my history, from Faisal and Nuri til now, outside powers have helped this all along. Sorry for rambling.... Back to listening for me. I would like to see this discussion really develop but if not that is okay to. Yasser Alaskary, there is nothing "shameful" in these questions. Andrew At 08:30 PM 3/27/02 +0100, Dirk Adriaensens wrote: >Dear Felicity, >brilliant reaction. Some things need re-reminding indeed. >The call for a "humanitarian" intervention is growing. But I'm very happy >that a majority of the British people is against a new war on Iraq. Did >anyone hear the debate between a.o. Ramsey Clark and ex-CIA boss Woolsey on >the Democracy Now website? >http://stream.realimpact.org/rihurl.ram?file=webactive/demnow/dn20020320.ra& >start=6:44.0 >Ramsey Clark is in good shape, and Woolsey is of course very keen on >invading Iraq in order to "free the people of Iraq" from SH, not to throw >bombs, no, but just invade Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein, just like Yasser >Alaskary suggests: "how you get rid of Saddam Hussein should be the issue >that is discussed for those concerned with the US's current moves on Iraq, >to campaign against a war on the Iraqi people but to support the initiation >of another uprising (like 1991) so that they Iraqi people can liberate >themselves (there are also other options that do not involve bombing iraq >from top to bottom)." His Master's Voice-talk. >Because that's precisely the intention of the US' possible new war against >Iraq. >I'm very glad it wasn't me who had to react to this shameful statement. >Greetings. >Dirk. _______________________________________________ Sent via the discussion list of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq. To unsubscribe, visit http://lists.casi.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/casi-discuss To contact the list manager, email firstname.lastname@example.org All postings are archived on CASI's website: http://www.casi.org.uk