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Mr Gedin, No ofcourse one shouldn't have to debate ALL evils. I don't think you read my second posting very carefully. What I said was that it is waste of time to debate Halajba with US/UK diplomats and policymakers who are "following a line", if your goal is to lift sanctions from Iraq. If you have tried this yourself, you will see what I mean. Let me put it in very broad terms. When SH was THEIR (meaning the US/UK)dictator everything was fine and the US/UK considered him a quasi ally (although never one like the Kuwaiti rulers etc) from '82 to '90. When he deviated from that, and becomes his OWN dictator, following his own agenda, then everything fell apart and the US put into motion a plan they've had all along, which is to have a permanent military presence in the Gulf (which now they would also like to do near the Caspian Sea, for the same reason -- control over oil.) The point I was trying to make is that it is a waste of time to debate these political events and try to "persuade" and "lobby" policymakers in the UK foreign offices and the Dept of State to lift the sanctions, because the real agenda has to do with the Great Game, oil access, the pro-israeli lobby, cutting off China, etc, etc. It was different in the case of lobbying to protect Nicaragua and El Salvador's poor in the 80s, many of us did a fine job from stopping the bombing of Nicaragua when it was under the Sandinistas, because these countries were not so important to US strategic interests (no oil, for one thing.) I am speaking simplistically here ofcourse. Anyway, if 10 years of lobbying by the Pope and others, haven't persuaded our leaders to lift sanctions from Iraq, then nothing is going to. That is why I am saying, in a very pragmatic and realist way, that the only thing to do is to render sanctions inoperable, ie "breaking" them, and by condemning the sanctions against Iraq as human rights violations at the UN Commission on Human Rights, General Assembly etc, to legitimize going outside of the SC Resolutions. The US can't possibly bribe/coerce ALL the nations if they all break sanctions together. The more human rights resolutions are approved at the UN, the more lower level echelons of power (parliamentarians, corporations) will be confident enough to "break" and legislate against the sanctions. Although I can't see that happening in the US congress, because of the pro-Israeli lobby being so strong. It could happen in European parliaments however (viz, its banning of DU) and certainly oil corporations around the world can't wait to get into Iraq, Elf Aquitaine in France is on the verge of a unilateral agreement with the Iraqi oil ministry. It's not the ideal situation, by any means, and if you or others have another solution, I would like to hear it, Philippa >===== Original Message From Bert Gedin <firstname.lastname@example.org> ===== >Dear Philippa Winkler & All, >Philippa, is it really feasible to debate ALL evils, every time one deals >with a single misdeed? Doesn't that spell out cerebral overload? >Like blinkered horses, as not to be distracted, we, too, need to be focused. >This website, as I understand, is about Iraq, since the Gulf War, with >various implications. It would be preposterous, for us, to be dealing with >all global problems, since the beginnings of history, however strong the >links. >No-one, I hope, is saying it's easy to persuade those mongering in warfare >that their deeds result in untold suffering, and death, for >thousands, frequently innocent of any alleged crimes. But what is the >alternative? To, fired by revenge, create similar havoc as your foes, thus >adding to the misery? >To see Halabjah as a 'red herring', i.e. some demonic dream, bearing no >relationship with reality, if you really meant it, would be cynicism >beyond belief - someone has been responsible for the unbelievably >callously inflicted crimes against humanity. But maybe you have never >seen pictures, nor films, from Halabjah, as some of us have. >You propose suggestions, how we should deal with the many ills of the world, >such as such as disregarding sanctions. That could be one way - >but however we choose to respond to the, very serious, challenges, >hopefully, it will be well thought out, guided by our sense of justice and >truth. >It appears that you have been involved, since 1966, perhaps before, in >chipping away at violations of human rights, including the inhumane, and >notorious, sanctions against Iraq. Without such, seemingly thankless, >endeavours, this planet would, surely, be an even more sorrowful place to >inhabit. - Greetings, Bert Gedin. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq >For removal from list, email email@example.com >CASI's website - www.casi.org.uk - includes an archive of all postings. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq For removal from list, email firstname.lastname@example.org CASI's website - www.casi.org.uk - includes an archive of all postings.