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At 09:17 PM 3/1/01 -0000, Dave Rolstone wrote: Do you object to the idea that using questionable statistics without qualification can backfire? >In Mil's opening statement he thanks us for our thoughtful postings, but >mine at least wasn't thought out but straight from the heart. >Mil constructs an idealised system of logic, then goes on tell us how we >ought rationally to structure our beliefs to fit in with his system. But >does reality correspond with his theory? And even if it does is that the >only way forward? I believe there are many ways forward but he seems to >believe that only his way is correct, and that we should all conform to his >understanding of the situation. An underlying assumption is that what we've >seen is so horrendous that we are unable to digest or to deal with it, and >only he with his logical approach is able to cope. >But more than that is a strong hint that we are dangerous and prolonging the >agony for the Iraqi people, there is no place for freedom of thought within >Mil's construction. This is the sort of authoritarian attitude that I see >coming from Governments, and it dismays me to see it in the ante sanctions >movement. >Yours Dave. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Milan Rai <milanrai@trinityroad.free-online.co.uk> >To: CASI Discussion Group <soc-casi-discuss@lists.cam.ac.uk> >Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:18 AM >Subject: Re: Not Shooting Ourselves In The Foot > > >> Dear Margarita, Felicity, Dave, John (and everyone else) >> >> Many thanks for your thoughtful postings. >> >> Like you, I've seen the sanctions at work in hospitals in Iraq, and, like >> you, I've found it a tearing experience which is very difficult to digest >or >> to deal with. >> >> Like you, I've dedicated a large part of the last few years to trying to >> wake up public opinion back here in the West and to mobilising that >opinion >> into an effective force for change, an effective force against the lies >and >> deceit of the British government in particular. >> >> Part of that effort has been trying to gather together and distribute the >> information needed to refute Foreign Office lies as they appear (and >> re-appear, and re-appear). >> >> Only solid, independent, credible information can empower people to resist >> the tidal wave of propaganda we get every day about Iraq, and help them to >> persuade others, and to widen the circle of dissent and resistance. >> >> I'm sure we all agree on that. >> >> When, inadvertently or perhaps sometimes carelessly - I can think of >Voices >> UK's early use of the supposed FAO estimate of 1995, for example - we >> disseminate information which is not solid, independent and credible, we >> weaken the movement. People who get that information use it (against their >> MPs or the Foreign Office, or whoever). >> >> If those activists then are unable to back up what they claim, if those >> activists are shown to be saying things which aren't true, that failure >> shakes their confidence, makes them less likely to campaign, undermines >> other people's willingness to hear what they are saying, sets back the >hopes >> of the Iraqi people. >> >> It helps to prolong the agony which all five of us have seen many times in >> Iraq's hospitals. >> >> I'm sure we all agree on this, too. >> >> The point of my original intervention, and in part of Per's careful - not >> academic, but careful - posting, was to say: >> a) anti-sanctions activists in the past have claimed that the UN or a UN >> agency has estimated child deaths due to sanctions at 500,000, or total >> deaths due to sanctions at 1 million, or similar figures >> b) these claims cannot be backed up - neither the UN nor any UN agency has >> made such estimates >> c) if we make such claims ABOUT WHAT THE UN IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE SAID we >are >> shooting ourselves in the foot >> >> I'm not urging anyone to stop saying that they believe that 1 million >Iraqis >> may have been killed by the economic sanctions. This seems quite a >> reasonable figure. But it is not a figure that we can attribute to the UN. >> >> By making such unfounded claims, we weaken the movement, we prolong the >> agony of children in Iraqi hospitals. >> >> Let's put it in a suitably un-academic way: >> >> Making unfounded claims does not help the children of Iraq. It helps >George >> Bush and Robin Cook and Tony Blair. >> >> All of us on this list are dedicated to ending the economic sanctions as >> soon as possible. There is plenty of solid, independent, credible >> information around to help us do that (CASI has played an invaluable role >in >> bringing a lot of it together). There is no need for us to make claims >that >> we cannot support. >> >> Let's get on with campaigning, using the best information we can and >> supporting each other as much as we can. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Mil >> >> Milan Rai >> Joint Coordinator >> Voices in the Wilderness UK >> National Office >> 16B Cherwell St, Oxford OX4 1BG >> >> Personal contact details >> 29 Gensing Road, St Leonards-on-sea TN38 0HE >> ph 0845 458 9571 (local rate) pager 07623 746 462 >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq >> For removal from list, email soc-casi-discuss-request@lists.cam.ac.uk >> Full details of CASI's various lists can be found on the CASI website: >> http://www.casi.org.uk >> > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq >For removal from list, email soc-casi-discuss-request@lists.cam.ac.uk >Full details of CASI's various lists can be found on the CASI website: >http://www.casi.org.uk > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq For removal from list, email soc-casi-discuss-request@lists.cam.ac.uk Full details of CASI's various lists can be found on the CASI website: http://www.casi.org.uk