The following is an archived copy of a message sent to a Discussion List run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

Views expressed in this archived message are those of the author, not of the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq.

[Main archive index/search] [List information] [Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]


[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

No Subject





Mark Parkinson wrote: 

  Hi Jason 

  I am not on any committee and have no connection with Iraq. I have 
  been deeply concerned about the genocide in Iraq since the start. I 
  am also concerned about 'Imperialist' issues but I now never use 
  the term. 

  > At the last National Co-ordination Meeting of anti-sanctions groups 

  That's the key for me - it does not say 'and anti-war'. 

  More pragmatically, the more people and organisations that are 
  involved and the narrower the focus (criminal, humanitarian, 
  genocide, sanctions) the better chance we have of making 
  progress against sanctions (and such progress would help 
  undermine the imperialists). 

  In terms of civilian casualties sanctions far outweigh the illegal 
  bombings. 

  I would dearly love to get HRW and Amnesty actively fighting these 
  sanctions. Any sniff of anti-war or anti-imperialism and they would 
  disapppear. 

  It is quite possible to get middle of the road, establishment and 
  even right wingers to fight against sanctions. They need to be told 
  about the effects of sanctions and have the US/UK arguments 
  answered which is easy without having to resort to theories about 
  the underlying causes (eg imperialism). 

  Only very recently I came across a die-hard Republican-supporting 
  American (not a friend of mine!). He is anti-SH and believes in 
  direct military intervention, assassination, bombing etc and thought 
  that sanctions were a good thing. On being exposed to the facts 
  about sanctions he fairly soon came round to the view that non- 
  military sanctions should be lifted urgently. Even the control of oil 
  sales income he then disagreed with when we pointed out that this 
  produced a command economy - a communist model with no room 
  for capitalism! 

  >The only question is do these meetings need to run 
  > in parallel to the current National Co-rdination Meetings (NCM) 

  In parallel - reports from anti-war meetings can be shared with NCM 
  members. 

  > In essence, we cannot frame any events or discuss anything whilst 
  > maintaining a blanket ban on political discussion within the movement. 


  I can understand your frustration but I would support keeping the 
  ban. I wouldn't even allow time-limited sessions for political 
  discussion. The danger is that some people would become 
  alienated. Time would be wasted on 'framing' the events. You gave 
  two views of 1284. There are others possible. Only recently I had 
  the whole scenario explained to me just in the context of Israel. 

  I suppose a possible compromise would be to have one small 
  session which split into two separate groups - those wanting the 
  political discussion and those not. 

  A paraphrased casual discussion  with a former UK air force officer: 

  me: these bombings are useless. They cost money and achieve 
  nothing. Even worse, SH can trigger them when he wants. 

  him: we're not seen to initiate them and they serve to keep the 
  media and the public's eyes off the ball (the genocidal sanctions) 

  Mark Parkinson 
  Cornwall 

  -- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq 
  For removal from list, email soc-casi-discuss-request@lists.cam.ac.uk 
  Full archive and list instructions are available from the CASI website: 
  http://welcome.to/casi

I'm glad someone on this list wants to discuss these issues! 

  More pragmatically, the more people and organisations that are 
  involved and the narrower the focus (criminal, humanitarian, 
  genocide, sanctions) the better chance we have of making 
  progress against sanctions (and such progress would help 
  undermine the imperialists).

  I can understand what you mean but I'm not sure that this point is made in
the right way.  
Surely, the broader the issue the more chance there is of onvolving more groups
and 
individuals.  At the moment, many groups are not attending because they see
a focus on 
sanctions that ignores bombing as unprincipled and illogical. 

  In terms of civilian casualties sanctions far outweigh the illegal 
  bombings.

  This seems to be the argument of a small Cambridge group around Colin Rowat
but it 
seems hard to sustain.  Operation Desert storm destroyed manufacturing industries,
water 
sanitation, oil production, electricity facilities, hospitals, schools, roads,
bridges, fertiliser 
plants etc. poisoning the environment with uranium dust for untold generations.
 It in this 
context of near apocalyptic destruction and subsequent leverage over Iraq that
sanctions 
have their deadly effect.  However, you may say that bombing's in the past.
 Yet even 
now without constant military monitoring, naval and air blockade the sanctions
against 
Iraq would be far more permeable.  Look at Cuba- it has been im[poversihed but

thousands aren't dying- because constant air missions and bombing doesn't take
place 
because Cuba can defend its air space: currently, Iraq cannot. 

  I would dearly love to get HRW and Amnesty actively fighting these 
  sanctions. Any sniff of anti-war or anti-imperialism and they would 
  disapppear.

  If we could get them involved in that would be good.  If the only method of
involvement 
was to have an exclusively humanitarian panel then so be it (I suspect you may
be right 
with these groups- though even Amnesty doesn't fear condemning acts of war particulary

when they happen in other countries, though they've also condemned asylum and

detention here, surely a 'political' matter).  However, our proposal is to have
a split 
agenda- if they or we needed to withdraw then fine.  Human Relief Foundation
(HRF), a 
charity of high prestige and publicity among Britain's 1.5 million Muslim population,

cannot take on political positions but have already informed me that they would
have no 
problem whatsoever with participating in a session as I have outlined- withdrawing
form 
the more political discussions- and participating actively in other sessions.
 They are a key 
organisation who regularly take aid into Iraq, have a very high public profile
in certain 
areas, and have no problem with these proposals. 

    It is quite possible to get middle of the road, establishment and 
    even right wingers to fight against sanctions. They need to be told 
    about the effects of sanctions and have the US/UK arguments 
    answered which is easy without having to resort to theories about 
    the underlying causes (eg imperialism).

    Only very recently I came across a die-hard Republican-supporting 
    American (not a friend of mine!). He is anti-SH and believes in 
    direct military intervention, assassination, bombing etc and thought 
    that sanctions were a good thing. On being exposed to the facts 
    about sanctions he fairly soon came round to the view that non-
    military sanctions should be lifted urgently

   

  I think we should actively encourage all sorts of people to get involved-
peace groups, 
Islamic groups, church groups, political groups, antiracists etc.  We should
use the simple 
arguments about the thousands dying, the millions suffering etc. yes.  I don't
understand 
your objection to the term Imperialist though- it's a bit like saying we can
support the 
Indian protest movements around Gandhi etc but we mustn't use the term Empire
or 
Imperialist.  However, if you wish to avoid the term, fine.  The point is that
at the moment 
we risk certain groups feeling excluded from participating fully in NCMs if
they have a 
certain analysis: most Iraqis in this country, also mainly anti-SH though for
far more 
credible reasons than the person you refer to, often use Imperialism as a term
(and living 
reality)- they should not be excluded. 
As for the extremely rare person who supports bombing but not sanctions I have
no fear 
of alienating them; we don't need them- in fact, we should not make common cause
with 
them otherwise we could end up appearing to support war against Iraq and, for
that 
matter,  alienate far more people. 
 A paraphrased casual discussion  with a former UK air force officer: 

me: these bombings are useless. They cost money and achieve 
nothing. Even worse, SH can trigger them when he wants. 

him: we're not seen to initiate them and they serve to keep the 
media and the public's eyes off the ball (the genocidal sanctions) 

  A paraphrased casual discussion  with a former UK air force officer:

  me: these bombings are useless. They cost money and achieve 
  nothing. Even worse, SH can trigger them when he wants.

  him: we're not seen to initiate them and they serve to keep the 
  media and the public's eyes off the ball (the genocidal sanctions)

Interesting but implausible surely?  The anti-sanctions movement is small compared
to 
nearly a million people in anti-Desert Storm demo in 1990/91.  Why?  Well, there
may be 
other reasons but the lack of media attention now must count for a lot.  Actually,
in my 
expereince it's easier to get people mobilised and active about bombing than
sanctions- 
apart from they cannot be seperated.  If the officer is right why don't we see
constant TV 
coverage of the bombing and how Iraq's bringing it on itself etc.  Because they
do not 
want people to know about the bombing- many people don't as long as we campaign

against sanctions only we continue to mislead as people will think the bombing
is over 
(otherwise that lot would be shouting about that, too!) 
Anyway, apart from the right-wing Republican, have you or anyone ever met a
member 
of the public  who opposes sanctions whilst supporting bombing- we never have
(yet) 
though occassionally the other way round, people who oppose bombing but think

sanctions should stay in place because of Saddam, or they're put in by the UN
or 
whatever. 
 

  I suppose a possible compromise would be to have one small 
  session which split into two separate groups - those wanting the 
  political discussion and those not.

 
This could well be a possible compromise and various groups would support this-
though 
actually the main session could be in common and then a sub-group (the majority
we 
predict but time will see) could issue a joint statement and call an action
on an anti-war 
basis.
Cheers
Jason, 
Manchester.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a discussion list run by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq
For removal from list, email soc-casi-discuss-request@lists.cam.ac.uk
Full archive and list instructions are available from the CASI website:
http://welcome.to/casi


[Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq Homepage]